Curse

wankey · Jun 14, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

I'm judging whether to go axe or sword.

Sword 12 is better than axe 12 but axe 16 is better than sword 16. Am I right?

Riken Chrono · Jun 14, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

wrong.

Fluffyx · Jun 14, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by wankey

I'm judging whether to go axe or sword.

Sword 12 is better than axe 12 but axe 16 is better than sword 16. Am I right?

Axe damage output is less stable than a Sword obviously. A higher axe mastery of course will lead to greater damage than a sword at the same level.
I'm pretty sure an axe mastery level equal to the sword mastery the axe will always have a higher output. I can't remember where I saw it but somewhere on this site is listed the damage per minute done by every weapon in the game, I will try to find it for you.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/calcula...e=1.33&crit=20

(this should be it with the axe set in for you, you can change it to sword when you want to compare)

Riotact · Jun 14, 2006, 03:00 AM // 03:00

max dmg for a sword is 15-22
max dmg for an axe is 6-28
that means that u can do more dmg in 1 hit with an axe. but an axe can do less dmg with 1 hit also. sword dmg is more consistant. but thats not the only thing to take into account when deciding. check out the skills too.

i personally use an axe, try both and see what u prefer.

Zui · Jun 14, 2006, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Here's some math to put it in perspective:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The baseline for pressure in this discussion is a warrior who does nothing other than autoattack a caster. With an unmodded max weapon and 16 attribute, he'll dish out the following amounts of damage:

Sword: 34.12 damage per hit, 25.59 damage per second, 1536 damage per minute; 38.39 damage per second, 2303 damage per minute while under Frenzy
Axe: 35.55 damage per hit, 26.66 damage per second, 1600 damage per minute; 40 damage per second, 2400 damage per minute while under Frenzy
Hammer: 51.36 damage per hit, 29.35 damage per second, 1761 damage per minute; 44.02 damage per second, 2641 damage per minute while under Frenzy

Don Zardeone · Jun 14, 2006, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Who cares about base DPS?
The real damage comes from skills anyway

right?

Look at the skills and pick what you like best.

Helll is for Heroes · Jun 14, 2006, 10:13 AM // 10:13

axe does more damage, eviscerate is also a much better elite than any sword elite imo.

Jestah · Jun 14, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Eviscerate is better for adrenal spiking but since factions sword definatly has some nice new skills. With For Great Justice and Dragon Slash you can maintain full permanent adreneline for 20 seconds and even without FGJ Slash still helps a lot with building adreneline. Axe is still probably superior for PvP because of the spiking potential of Eviscerate but sword is vasty superior for general pressure and PvE in my opinion.

jummeth · Jun 14, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

16 axe is probably better than 16 SM, since the increased crit rate means the pressure damage is better.

Evis+exe is the standard adreno spike for Axe (NB: elite usage)
sever+gash+final is standard adreno sword spike (NB: no elite usage)

The second spike is about 2 seconds long, while the first is 1 second.

Evis+exe =~ 300 (=100(evis)+100(DW)+100(exe))
sever/gash/final =~ 300 ( = 20(sever) + 60 (gash) + 100(DW) + 120 (FT))

however you lose all adren from sword, and FT takes 2 more strikes of adren and 1 more skill. However, its elite free. Its all about what your other requirements are.

Jestah · Jun 15, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Sword has a higer *basic* DPS than Axe. Like Jummeth said it's the crits that give it that slight edge on *effective* DPS. Crits are always based on your weapons max damage so I think you can see why axe is superior with a higher crit rate.

SteadyHand · Jun 15, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

I know you guys will..lol

This is what I found from Guild wiki:

On average, the highest level axe will do 12.8 damage per second (17 damage per hit), while its sword counterpart would do 13.9 dps (18.5 dph) and the hammer would do 16.3dps (27dph). It is therefore best to invest heavily in Axe Mastery to increase the likelihood of a critical hit and make use of the axe's high end damage. Based on the critical hit research, a max damage axe will produce more average damage per hit than a max damage sword at weapon mastery 11 or higher.

Which of the two weapons has a greater likelihood to land a crit blow?
Is that info available?

Two possible hits per weapon:
Axe
1) 6 Hps 2) 28 hps: Possible avg hit is 17hps
Sword
1) 15 Hps 2) 22 Hps: Possible avg hit is 18.5 Hps

Sword >Axe

Niosisw · Jun 15, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by wankey

I'm judging whether to go axe or sword.

Sword 12 is better than axe 12 but axe 16 is better than sword 16. Am I right?

PvP? = Axe

PvE? = Sword

When I use eviscerate in PvE I feel like I just lost a first born, even with FGJ/frenzy/berserker.

Bleeding + deep wound > any axe spike in PVE, but PvP, swords are generally p00p.

*I realize gash has an 7 adrenaline req and evisc has an 8, but that extra one seems to kill me, especially considering it's my elite.

Taurus · Jun 15, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Sword ALWAYS does less damage than axe or hammer, the only sword skill thats even close of doing a decent damage is final thrust wich is conditional ( target being below 50% health ) and takes 10 adrenaline to use it.

wankey · Jun 15, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

How are you guys getting 100dmg from eviscerate? Usualyl I get 50 - 85 max dmg on a 60armor.

so its more like 85 (max) + 100 fd + 50 executioners axe = 235dmg.

Celab · Jun 15, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

DPS wise i prefer hammers, but their skills and lack of sheild make them unusable, or not as useful in some situations, than a axe or a sword. EG with a axe you can use cyclone axe to farm and gain \hp from live vicarously and vigorous spirit, you can do this with a sword (hundred blades) and crude swing, but a. it isnt a elite, b. its fast recharge so spammable., c. It hits ALL oppoments adjacet to you, not infront of you.
But then hammers can be useful as a W/E farming a single boss, being able to knockdown and keep them knocked down. This can be utilised in PvP aswell

Taurus · Jun 15, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

You have to compare critical hits wankey.

With 1 strength, a 15^50 max axe, and 16 axe mastery Im getting 106 damage. That with deep wound would be like 106 + 20% of a health around 455 would be almost 200 damage in 1 single hit, and that can be followed by executioner's strike wich would be 106 in another critical.

With final thrust a sword can do 136 damage in 1 hit with 1 str, 16 sword and a 15^50% max sword. Even with swords having a faster attack spped, the difference between a sword spike and a axe spike is around 60 damage. For me enough reason to keep using swords only in PvE and when I'm playing a GvG utility elite non-attack skill in my warrior.

Sarevok Thordin · Jun 15, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

It's all a matter of your playstyle

Hammers = slow and hard. Bonus = Knockdown + Dwarven Battle Stance
Sword = fast and consistant damage. Bonus = Conditions + Ripose
Axe = Fast but wide range of damage. Bonus = Spike, and disrupting chop if you think this is good.

Just at a glance.

I use axes mostly, but I'm thinking of making another helm for swords.

jummeth · Jun 15, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteadyHand

I know you guys will..lol

This is what I found from Guild wiki:

On average, the highest level axe will do 12.8 damage per second (17 damage per hit), while its sword counterpart would do 13.9 dps (18.5 dph) and the hammer would do 16.3dps (27dph). It is therefore best to invest heavily in Axe Mastery to increase the likelihood of a critical hit and make use of the axe's high end damage. Based on the critical hit research, a max damage axe will produce more average damage per hit than a max damage sword at weapon mastery 11 or higher.

Which of the two weapons has a greater likelihood to land a crit blow?
Is that info available?

Two possible hits per weapon:
Axe
1) 6 Hps 2) 28 hps: Possible avg hit is 17hps
Sword
1) 15 Hps 2) 22 Hps: Possible avg hit is 18.5 Hps

Sword >Axe

However, I pointed out already that DPS is actually negligible. Skills are why a warrior is scary.

The second thing is, in PvP many people tend to run away from you. A lot of the time people turn their back (very foolish) and direct hits to the back == 100%crit.

Axe's adreno spike in 2 hits does the same (if not more damage) than the swords adreno spike. Which means that the spike is 1 second after at pushing out all the damage. To balance this, I also mentioned that swords do not need a sword elite to be effective.

Axe and Hammer builds are naked w/o their elites. Hammers can only be described as heavy pressure, since the attack speed is very low. Its sometimes seen as a spike since the pressure's damage is very high, however, its main strength is because its got a KD chain, which means if this pressure was on a monk, they have no chance to heal themselves. However, it is very easy for another monk to heal the KDed player.

@ Sarevok: Do people actually use Dwarven Battle Stance?! =S I'd loath to give up Devi or BackBreaker.

I do have to disagree against your pros and cons: imho

Hammers: KD + heavy pressure, slow to build adren.
Swords: Does NOT NEED elite, and still be very effective, adren skills cheaper.
Axes: High crit and a scary non-conditional spike.

Jestah · Jun 16, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Why do people always say sword doesn't *need* an elite. That's just a cliche from the times when sword had no usable elites. Sure, you don't *need* to do anything but sword is no less in need of an elite than axe is, it just happens that axe has a very good one. Although it's no longer true with factions anyway.

2 skills (sever/gash) with no damage bonus just to apply a deep wound is far from an efficient spike and in a split situation probably won't even leave the target with below 50% for the FT.

Btw this thread has nothing to do with elementary observations on what each is good for, it's about raw DPS. Judging from the OPs interest in fairly in-depth stats I think he can figure the simple stuff out for himself.

I'm not sure how sword and axe compare with 12 mastery because the damage caluclator here is always based on 16 mastery but you will hardly ever be running less than 15/16 mastery anyway if your main interest is damage. At 16 mastery, axe is definately superior in terms of DPS and Eviscerate is unmatchable for spiking.

jummeth · Jun 16, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Have you tried using an axe in PvP and still remain effective without an Axe elite? The fact that you can spike on a sword w/o an elite almost as well as that on an axe is the meaning.